Apple founder Steve Jobs was amazing at crafting his own narrative. No one knows that better than the most recent man to craft that narrative himself: Danny Boyle. “One of the things I realized in doing this film was Jobs was a great storyteller,” says the Steve Jobs director, “and great storytellers make you forget about their failures.” In the above interview with WIRED, Boyle says the benchmark Jobs set for today’s CEOs is pretty high, considering the amount of theatrics they have to be able to pull off to live up to him. As for the CEOs themselves, Boyle says he’s more of a fan of Tim Berners-Lee and the founders of Wikipedia than the folks behind apps. “During the time we’re having this interview Uber will have increased in value, and it’s an algorithm—it’s not even a kind of manufacturer of anything,” he says. “And you go, ‘Oh relax, will you? It’s not that big of issue, is it? It’s just a kind of app for taxi drivers, isn’t it?’ Yes, but what appears to be almost entirely benign and progressive can actually be something that eats away at your freedom.”

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Director Danny Boyle on the Real Impact of Steve Jobs