On the Song Exploder podcast, host Hrishikesh Hirway talks to musicians who take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the stories of how they were made. Listen below.

Los Angeles rapper Busdriver has been releasing albums with his signature hyperliterate, intellectual style since 2001. Now, more than a decade later, the MC is reaching for something more intimate and personal. In this episode, he breaks down the 2015 song “Worlds to Run” along with the track’s producer, Kenny Segal. It features guest vocals from Anderson .Paak and Milo, and both vocalists shaped Busdriver’s vision for the song. .Paak, for example, was never actually in the studio with Busdriver, and even though the two only communicated over the phone his vocals so impressed the rapper and his producer they considered simply letting .Paak’s vocals stand alone. It was only after after playing all the vocal layers they recorded on top of each other that they decided to embrace the cacophony.

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Song Exploder: Busdriver Embraces Cacophony on ‘Worlds to Run’